The topic of English immigration came up on the Powys mailing list in June 2000.
Tony Francis said
Hi Malcolm,
"Seeing [an earlier message] reminded me:
John BEBB husband of Jane BREYNTON, Trefeglwys about 1642: daughter of Humphrey BREYNTON 1604-1662 & Catherine ____?; aunt of Hester JARMAN, 2nd wife/husband John ASHTON 1667-1732
Small population; big families; multiple marriages - everybody must be interconnected. These names from the 1600s: Ashton, Bebb, Benbow, Bennett, Beversley, Breynton, Gittins, Jarman, John, Parton, Wilson... don't sound like Welsh names. Would these folks have spoken Welsh? Did they limit themselves to marriages within an English-speaking group? When you see marriages to Evans or Griffiths, would these have been English-speaking Welsh people?"
Julie Preston added
"Arwystli was a lordship in western Montgomeryshire, following the Acts of Union (1536-1543). According to the Rowlands' in "Second Stages in Researching Welsh Ancestry", "there was a significant in-migration of English families to Montgomeryshire and, in particular, to the lordship of Arwystli in western Montgomeryshire during the period 1572-1580. At that time, Robert Dudley, Earl of Leicester, held the lordship of Arwystli, with other lordships, from the Crown." ["The Crown" being none other than the inimitable Elizabeth I herself! :-)
This explains the presence of many of the [English names above MB]. Some of these families probably spoke both Welsh and English, as some were clerics (vicars), while others were "yeomen" with land, so would have much Anglo influence in their lives. They did not, however, limit their marriages to "English" spouses, as family members married LLOYD's, POWELL's, GITTEN's, HUGHES, BREES, HUMPHREYS, DAVIES, and so on. I do see a pattern, though, where the marriages seemed to be with people of the same social status, which was normal for those times."
David Peate of the Montgomeryshire Genealogical Society took the subject further. David is very knowledgeable about Montgomeryshire, and Llanbryn-Mair in particular:
"Re: BEBB, etc., ancestors
Dear Malcolm, Tony and Julie
An English plantation in Arwystli is too facile an explanation for
the intrusion of English surnames in Montgomeryshire. The Tudor
court case on which this premise is made forms an article which I
had in Ninnau early in 1999. There was an equally significant
incoming of English surnames in Cyfeiliog where names such as
BREES, KNIGHT, HANCOCK, BATE, TIBBOTT and PEATE make early
appearances. These were followed a century later in Cyfeiliog by
DITCH, TART, IRISH and others. Many of the holders of these
surnames moved gradually westwards across the county during the
sixteenth and seventeenth centuries. PEATE and BEBB are associated
particularly with Llanbryn-Mair but they were also in other more
easterly parishes at an earlier period. Those who may be interested
in these early English intrusions should most certainly read the
article in the last volume (87) of the Montgomeryshire Collections
of the Powysland Club (1999). Murray Chapman's article "An English
Settlement in Western Montgomeryshire during the Tudor Period" is
fascinating including as it does the earliest sighting of 'foreign'
surnames which are derived from the gaol files from 1540. For
instance, Thomas BEBB is recorded in 1554 in Hendidley in the
parish of Llanllwchaiarn and John HAMER (not, surprisingly, on the
Radnorshire/ Montgomeryshire border) but in Guilsfield in 1566.
Regards, David Peate
Montgomeryshire Genealogical Society"
Montgomeryshire Genealogical Society has posted the 1671 Hearth Tax lists for Cyfeiliog. There is one Bebb, Richard Bebb in this list.
Another name that comes up in this context is Bumford/Bamford. The linked site quotes from much the same sources. [MB]
The reference to the Earl of Leicester is particularly
interesting, since Leicestershire has been suggested as an early
source of Bebbs. The similar Bubb and Bibb also seem to have their
roots in the English Midlands, I have seen several references to
them in that area. I recently did a little research for Ben Bibb,
which showed Bibbs (1999) concentrated around Wolverhampton in the
West Midlands.
Bebbs are also found in some numbers in the bordering county of
Shropshire, where many are farmers (2000).
These observations generally tie in with each other, to provide an
interesting line of enquiry.
However, the record of Thomas Bebb in 1554 suggests that the Bebb presence pre-dates the Arwystli 'plantation' by around 20 years. The later account of Thomas Bebb's problems refer to him appealing to Nicholas Bacon in London. Perhaps, had he been the Earl of Leicester's man, he might have taken a different course.
One of the names mentioned above was Benbow, an English name associated with archery. Katherine Benbow refers her web site to an immigration from England into Wales at this time. The story of her Benbows is similar in many respects to a number of Bebbs.
Last updated on January 4, 2005
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